Kouchner on Georgia Russia conflict 28/10 20:52 CET

The French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner has been leading an EU delegation in talks with Russia, intended to get full-scale partnership negotiations back on track. One diplomat there said the meeting was “pretty prickly,” but they succeeded in announcing a top-level summit in Nice in mid-November. Before the foreign ministers’ meeting, Bernard Kouchner spoke to euronews.

euronews: Minister, welcome to euronews. You’re here in St Petersburg at the Permanent Partnership Council with Russia. Where do the negotiations stand on the new partnership accord between the European Union and Russia, which were suspended following the events in Georgia?

Bernard Kouchner: There are many things yet to do on trade, visas, culture, exchanges, and all bound up the framework of the old agreement. Now, we’re making a new accord and obviously we decided to put the talks off between the European Union and Russia because of the events in Georgia…

euronews: Is there progress nonetheless?

Bernard Kouchner: Listen, on Georgia there was progress because there was a cease-fire and a pull-back of troops contingent upon an accord signed by President Sarkozy, President Medvedev and President Saakashvili. That agreement has been more or less well respected, but I note that unfortunately tensions still persist around South Ossetia; around Abkhazia; that these territories have been recognised solely by Russia and Nicaragua; and the European countries don’t recognise them. But you know there was a meeting in Geneva, and all the parties in the conflict were there.

euronews: You don’t think then, that the Geneva meeting was a flop, as some have considered it..

Bernard Kouchner: You know, it’s easy to consider it a failure, especially when you’ve done nothing. And the only one who did anything was the European Union, and obviously Russia and Georgia. Yes, you could say it was a semi-success. You could also say, if you’re a pessimist, that it was a semi-failure. For me, I prefer semi-success.

euronews: From the Russian side, the west is often reproached for double-standard politics, regarding the conflict in Kosovo, and that in Georgia. As someone who knows both closely, can you see any parallels?

Bernard Kouchner: It’s not the same. Firstly, in a certain way it was Kosovo which imposed the situation on itself. The Serbs and the Kosovars put pressure on the international community to make decisions. It took years. During those years there were negotiations, a contact group for nearly two years. And then a conference at Rambouillet. And then, in effect, the decisions and resolutions of the United Nations and then there were nearly two years of negotiations when the two protagonists didn;t want to talk.
So it’s not at all the same. There really were lots of efforts for a political decision to take shape, even drawn up by the two protagonists in Kosovo. That’s not the case with Georgia. Even though in 1992, there were rebellions and people were chased from their homes, and people were moved. I think the brutality, the suddenness of the combat has stirred public opinion everywhere. But in fact, we have to talk to our Russian friends, and with the Georgians as well. We have to help the Georgians get themselves out of this business. We have to help our Russian friends establish peace with the Georgians.

euronews: Minister, sometimes it’s said there’s a so-called Club of Russian Friends in the EU, of which France is a member. Is there a difference in political attitude towards Moscow between the old EU members and the new, particularly the ex-communist states?

Bernard Kouchner: Yes, I understand your question. Of course we, the six founder members of the EU, have a pretty united attitude. Together, with the others – not just the six founders – we consider ourselves on the same ground, our neighbour is Russia, Russia left communism almost 20 years ago. In the end, all that is very short in terms of history. And in the end, things evolve pretty much with good sense. We have to get along with Russia. There’s no military solution to that, but a solution of fraternal development, and above all a common solution to the crisis which is hitting Russia, just as it’s hitting the West in general. Then there are countries which have left, as I said, their time with the Soviet Union with very bad memories. And those memories are not easy for certain countries who’ve arrived more recently in the EU where we are 27 nations. We have to remain a united 27. And yes, certain countries have painful memories and they criticise Russia for its hard-line policies.

euronews: And yet there’s not always unity. During the European summit on energy you could see that Europe is still a long way from developing a common position on energy matters. How do you propose arriving at a common energy policy.

Bernard Kouchner: It wasn’t the place to discuss technical measures. It’s the agreement with 26 other countries which was needed. And the 27 are not far from an agreement. Contrary to what you say, there’s far more agreement amongst the 27 countries themselves than between Europe and the United States. I’m talking about the Kyoto agreement, all the accords that were intended, I mean the Bali agreement.

euronews: And talking of the United States, soon there’ll be changes there, there’ll be a new president in the White House. Do you think the changes there will affect relations between Europe and the US, especially if the Democratic candidate wins the election?

Bernard Kouchner: I think things will change somewhat whoever wins – talking of the world supremacy of the United States, even though it’ll remain an extremely strong country and will be without doubt in the front rank. I think what’s going to change, is that there’ll be a new balance to find, a new way to look on the world, on Europe, on Asia, on the rest of the planet, and of course on the United States. Right now, everyone lives on this small globe we call the Earth. Not just the United States, not just the dollar, and not just our American friends. And saying that I’m not criticising, I think change is called for.

euronews: You’ve been in politics a long time, as a humanitarian. Do you think today’s world is more, or less dangerous than before? Some talk of a return of the cold-war in a different form. What do you think?

Bernard Kouchner: I don’t think so. Before, there were many more wars than there are now, there were many more victims. To sort out the planet’s economic problems, you have to do what’s necessary with development. While we talk, while we confront Georgia and the economic crisis and plenty of other things, there are 250-million people – no, more… close to a billion people – who get up in the morning not knowing what they’re going to eat in the evening. We can’t forget that. The problems of the rich and the the share-owners are not insignificant, of course not, that’s not what I’m saying, but they pale into insignificance by comparison.

euronews: Minister, thank you.

Bernard Kouchner: I hope I wasn’t too pessimistic. In fact I’m full of hope. We’ve had to go through this crisis but now’s the time to bounce back … to make use of the crisis, if you’ll pardon the expression, to create something positive.